NDI v1 introduction / support
Starting from version 1.25, ATVO supports directly streaming the overlay graphics via NDI. When enabled, ATVO acts as an NDI source, streaming the overlay graphics to your favorite NDI consumer.
What is NDI?
NDI (Network Device Interface) is a technology that is able to stream graphics over the internet. You can consume an NDI stream in many ways, for example via Open Broadcaster Software (OBS). Other high-end professional solutions include consuming NDI via Tricaster or similar hardware.
For our typical users, NDI may be useful to off-load streaming of the overlay to another computer on your network. Rather than placing the overlay on top of an iRacing window and streaming the desktop, you can now consume the NDI stream on another computer and overlay the graphics via OBS or other software.
Note that you may need to use additional plugins for OBS, such as obs-ndi plugin.
More information on NDI can be found on their website: https://www.ndi.tv/
How do I use it in ATVO?
NDI streaming is disabled by default. To enable NDI, go to the ATVO settings and enable it under the "NDI Settings" tab. You can also change the name of the NDI source, the resolution and the desired framerate. You must restart ATVO after changing any of these settings, they will only take effect after restarting.
Once NDI is enabled, you should be able to load a theme and directly view the graphics from any NDI monitor / consumer.
For testing, you can download the NDI Tools, and use the Studio Monitor to view the NDI stream.
Performance
NDI performance is directly related to the amount of pixels visible in your overlay. In our testing, performance is very good when limited small widgets are visible on screen. When you are making larger widgets visible, performance may drop.
If you do not need NDI and use the overlay in the regular way, we recommend disabling NDI to prevent a performance impact on ATVO.
The screenshot below shows an ATVO overlay visible directly in OBS via the 'obs-ndi' plugin:
What is NDI?
NDI (Network Device Interface) is a technology that is able to stream graphics over the internet. You can consume an NDI stream in many ways, for example via Open Broadcaster Software (OBS). Other high-end professional solutions include consuming NDI via Tricaster or similar hardware.
For our typical users, NDI may be useful to off-load streaming of the overlay to another computer on your network. Rather than placing the overlay on top of an iRacing window and streaming the desktop, you can now consume the NDI stream on another computer and overlay the graphics via OBS or other software.
Note that you may need to use additional plugins for OBS, such as obs-ndi plugin.
More information on NDI can be found on their website: https://www.ndi.tv/
How do I use it in ATVO?
NDI streaming is disabled by default. To enable NDI, go to the ATVO settings and enable it under the "NDI Settings" tab. You can also change the name of the NDI source, the resolution and the desired framerate. You must restart ATVO after changing any of these settings, they will only take effect after restarting.
Once NDI is enabled, you should be able to load a theme and directly view the graphics from any NDI monitor / consumer.
For testing, you can download the NDI Tools, and use the Studio Monitor to view the NDI stream.
Performance
NDI performance is directly related to the amount of pixels visible in your overlay. In our testing, performance is very good when limited small widgets are visible on screen. When you are making larger widgets visible, performance may drop.
If you do not need NDI and use the overlay in the regular way, we recommend disabling NDI to prevent a performance impact on ATVO.
The screenshot below shows an ATVO overlay visible directly in OBS via the 'obs-ndi' plugin:
Edited (4 times)
So I've actually used this in a proper context of a broadcast. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/546024448 for a sample, and I've gotten feedback:
The Good
The ease of use.
As someone who uses NDI sources constantly using a dual PC system, it provides a massive bonus in this category. It reduces the necessary of taking precautions in the setup I run for ATVO. I honestly prefer having the game itself as one layer (using the Game Source option for OBS), and using ATVO on another (through NDI Source)
The ease of setup and reliability.
The implementation of NDI in ATVO, in terms of the setup and reliability, is very good. OBS was immediately able to pick up the NDI data stream, and no issues even after multiple test restarts of OBS and the dual PC setup.
What needs to be looked into (currently)
Performance degradation.
There is a very large performance penalty currently using this system, to the point where the main program even using the overlay listed in the highlight above causes the entire program to reach a limit, and the program turns into a slideshow. Even after making as much of a optimization as I could (it forced me to fix a persistent scripting error!), there was zero change to the issues I was seeing. From what I can see it is thread limited, and while I know it is in the Alpha/Beta branches currently, if the performance isn't improved it might prevent most people using 1080p resolutions and NDI.
Though while performance is a large issue currently, I cannot stress enough how good the implementation is currently. Good work!
The Good
The ease of use.
As someone who uses NDI sources constantly using a dual PC system, it provides a massive bonus in this category. It reduces the necessary of taking precautions in the setup I run for ATVO. I honestly prefer having the game itself as one layer (using the Game Source option for OBS), and using ATVO on another (through NDI Source)
The ease of setup and reliability.
The implementation of NDI in ATVO, in terms of the setup and reliability, is very good. OBS was immediately able to pick up the NDI data stream, and no issues even after multiple test restarts of OBS and the dual PC setup.
What needs to be looked into (currently)
Performance degradation.
There is a very large performance penalty currently using this system, to the point where the main program even using the overlay listed in the highlight above causes the entire program to reach a limit, and the program turns into a slideshow. Even after making as much of a optimization as I could (it forced me to fix a persistent scripting error!), there was zero change to the issues I was seeing. From what I can see it is thread limited, and while I know it is in the Alpha/Beta branches currently, if the performance isn't improved it might prevent most people using 1080p resolutions and NDI.
Though while performance is a large issue currently, I cannot stress enough how good the implementation is currently. Good work!
Thanks for the feedback! I am aware of the performance issues, like I mentioned in another thread it is due to the fact that it's being rendered on the cpu. It is actually unrelated to NDI itself, the bottleneck is rendering the overlay into a format NDI can use.
Meanwhile I am working on an alternative capturing method which uses the gpu and should work much better. However we cannot integrate it into ATVO just yet, and it also requires a future version of W10 to properly test it (on current versions there is no transparency so a bit useless). If you see a serious usecase for NDI I would be open to sending you a preview version of this alternative mode, it comes in a separate application so you can just run it beside ATVO. I don't really want to release that publicly yet mostly as it will cause lots of confusion having two methods... Let me know if you're interested!
Meanwhile I am working on an alternative capturing method which uses the gpu and should work much better. However we cannot integrate it into ATVO just yet, and it also requires a future version of W10 to properly test it (on current versions there is no transparency so a bit useless). If you see a serious usecase for NDI I would be open to sending you a preview version of this alternative mode, it comes in a separate application so you can just run it beside ATVO. I don't really want to release that publicly yet mostly as it will cause lots of confusion having two methods... Let me know if you're interested!
Christian Schmitz2 wrote:The transparency will work after Microsoft fix their bug in Windows, no need for chroma keying. But that update is scheduled only in 2004 release (April 2020). Or you can install an insider fast ring unstable build right now to try it.
In that state the only possiblity that makes sense to use the GPU version should be with chroma key filters in your broadcast software.
Have you planned that you can select the GPU that will take the load, if you use more than one GPU in you system?
I don't think I can choose which GPU is used.
Nick Thissen wrote:
Thanks for the feedback! I am aware of the performance issues, like I mentioned in another thread it is due to the fact that it's being rendered on the cpu. It is actually unrelated to NDI itself, the bottleneck is rendering the overlay into a format NDI can use.
Meanwhile I am working on an alternative capturing method which uses the gpu and should work much better. However we cannot integrate it into ATVO just yet, and it also requires a future version of W10 to properly test it (on current versions there is no transparency so a bit useless). If you see a serious usecase for NDI I would be open to sending you a preview version of this alternative mode, it comes in a separate application so you can just run it beside ATVO. I don't really want to release that publicly yet mostly as it will cause lots of confusion having two methods... Let me know if you're interested!
I would be very interested in seeing this alternate mode and providing feedback. As I'm getting more and more into doing broadcasting, it'd provide a real world use case for my own needs. I'd want to keep to the constraints of Twitch (6 Mbps) for quality, and an NDI solution is perfect for using a dual system setup without having to purchase a capture card.
Just let me know what feedback you'd require in DM's :) (if the forums has got DM's). Or obrienrobert2005@gmail.com is the email.
Nick Thissen wrote:
Thanks for the feedback! I am aware of the performance issues, like I mentioned in another thread it is due to the fact that it's being rendered on the cpu. It is actually unrelated to NDI itself, the bottleneck is rendering the overlay into a format NDI can use.
Meanwhile I am working on an alternative capturing method which uses the gpu and should work much better. However we cannot integrate it into ATVO just yet, and it also requires a future version of W10 to properly test it (on current versions there is no transparency so a bit useless). If you see a serious usecase for NDI I would be open to sending you a preview version of this alternative mode, it comes in a separate application so you can just run it beside ATVO. I don't really want to release that publicly yet mostly as it will cause lots of confusion having two methods... Let me know if you're interested!
I would love to have a try of this Nick. I've been working on all sorts of things for our broadcasts, but the performance issues are causing me all sorts of headaches. Having two versions of ATVO running wouldnt be a bother to me with all the other things I have running in the background anyway.
Feel free to email me - director@simspeed.tv
Edited (1 time)
Nick Thissen wrote:
Thanks for the feedback! I am aware of the performance issues, like I mentioned in another thread it is due to the fact that it's being rendered on the cpu. It is actually unrelated to NDI itself, the bottleneck is rendering the overlay into a format NDI can use.
Meanwhile I am working on an alternative capturing method which uses the gpu and should work much better. However we cannot integrate it into ATVO just yet, and it also requires a future version of W10 to properly test it (on current versions there is no transparency so a bit useless). If you see a serious usecase for NDI I would be open to sending you a preview version of this alternative mode, it comes in a separate application so you can just run it beside ATVO. I don't really want to release that publicly yet mostly as it will cause lots of confusion having two methods... Let me know if you're interested!
I'm interested to give this a try.
dwayneprins@gmail.com
Edited (1 time)
Hey Nick,
Due to the actual situation I have some spare time to spend somewhere else 😅
I'd be interestes too in that version of atvo.
I'd make it run dn my dedicated streaming PC, and use it for the current Nordschleife series, an 24h Nürburgring.
As I got more familiar with atvo in the last months i could give some feedback, or even make some tests it this would help you (now I'm not that coding pro 😂)
My email is schmitz.christian@live.de if you want to share it 🙂
Due to the actual situation I have some spare time to spend somewhere else 😅
I'd be interestes too in that version of atvo.
I'd make it run dn my dedicated streaming PC, and use it for the current Nordschleife series, an 24h Nürburgring.
As I got more familiar with atvo in the last months i could give some feedback, or even make some tests it this would help you (now I'm not that coding pro 😂)
My email is schmitz.christian@live.de if you want to share it 🙂
You can now try the new NDI Recorder on the alpha channel!
Nick Thissen wrote:
What is your Windows version? This should only happen if it is not up to date enough, in which case you should also get a warning on startup. The minimum is version 2004, OS Build 19041.153. This build is not yet released on the regular updates and only available as an Insider build.
Well I had a windows update to do and now it works. So the Warning obviously is the part not working. Thanks again Nick. Its worked well so far from minor testing.